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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well, called 2 different dealerships today about possibly buying a raptor. These dealerships are within 30 miles of one another. Neither will budge off the sticker price, saying that the truck is too rare.
 

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I would not give up, keep shopping around. Unless you have money to burn I would think $1000, $2000 or even more saving would be worth making a drive to find one. Most of us got ours below sticker.
 

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Well, called 2 different dealerships today about possibly buying a raptor. These dealerships are within 30 miles of one another. Neither will budge off the sticker price, saying that the truck is too rare.
Where are you located??
 

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I purchased a full loaded Raptor delivered all in to the Netherlands at EURO 60.000,-...!! And still very happy, so stop complainiing....
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I purchased a full loaded Raptor delivered all in to the Netherlands at EURO 60.000,-...!! And still very happy, so stop complainiing....
LOMFL, are you serious? I wouldnt tell people that, what is that like $88k american dollars for a truck? Did they at least spit on it before insertion? They want sticker price, $42,335. I am located in Indiana, they told me it is a "special vehicle", I asked if that is because "special vehicle team" made it. Which in that case, perfect because my "special vehicle team" cobra will be worth more on trade. Then, they came out and said they would do it for x plan plus $1295 for paint,interior protection package. Then, emailed me again and said they couldnt do the x plan. I refuse to pay that amount of money plus taxes for a truck that is not even a diesel. With that being said and seeing so many different types of pricing on these things. What would be a "good" deal on one?
 

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A good deal would be $39,500 plus tax, title etc. That's with the graphics, luxury pkg and rear camera...Most of us will pay more though because we've got ants in our knickers!
Reddog...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
A good deal would be $39,500 plus tax, title etc. That's with the graphics, luxury pkg and rear camera...Most of us will pay more though because we've got ants in our knickers!
Reddog...
so you think $39,500 plus tax is good for a car that has a 37,xxx invoice?
 

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LOMFL, are you serious? I wouldnt tell people that, what is that like $88k american dollars for a truck? Did they at least spit on it before insertion? They want sticker price, $42,335. I am located in Indiana, they told me it is a "special vehicle", I asked if that is because "special vehicle team" made it. Which in that case, perfect because my "special vehicle team" cobra will be worth more on trade. Then, they came out and said they would do it for x plan plus $1295 for paint,interior protection package. Then, emailed me again and said they couldnt do the x plan. I refuse to pay that amount of money plus taxes for a truck that is not even a diesel. With that being said and seeing so many different types of pricing on these things. What would be a "good" deal on one?
Hah, "are YOU serious" is a better question. You have to remember that the Raptor is a special vehicle even in the states. So tack on that rarity to import/export costs, registering and making it legal for another country's standards...and it's not too hard to imagine how the price could jump. I know a guy who sells SALVAGE titled GT mustangs in Germany for 45,000. Why? Because it's a rare import vehicle for that country.

Do me a favor...go buy a special edition BMW or Mercedes, have it imported to the states...and tell me how much you end up paying for it...it'll open your eyes up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hah, "are YOU serious" is a better question. You have to remember that the Raptor is a special vehicle even in the states. So tack on that rarity to import/export costs, registering and making it legal for another country's standards...and it's not too hard to imagine how the price could jump. I know a guy who sells SALVAGE titled GT mustangs in Germany for 45,000. Why? Because it's a rare import vehicle for that country.

Do me a favor...go buy a special edition BMW or Mercedes, have it imported to the states...and tell me how much you end up paying for it...it'll open your eyes up.

You sound like a used car salesman at this point. Either way, he paid wayyyy too much. Almost double in fees, I dont think so. Introduce me to your buddy, he can buy my cobra for $21k, strip it down to make it "salvaged" so he can import it. Then sell that for 75,000.
 

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You're completely insane if you think that someone from another country can buy a Raptor and have it imported to where they live and pay anywhere near what you might pay for one. That's all i'm saying...and if you seriously want your cobra sold, I'll give him a call and see if he's interested.
 

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Hah, "are YOU serious" is a better question. You have to remember that the Raptor is a special vehicle even in the states. So tack on that rarity to import/export costs, registering and making it legal for another country's standards...and it's not too hard to imagine how the price could jump. I know a guy who sells SALVAGE titled GT mustangs in Germany for 45,000. Why? Because it's a rare import vehicle for that country.

Do me a favor...go buy a special edition BMW or Mercedes, have it imported to the states...and tell me how much you end up paying for it...it'll open your eyes up.

With that kind of money you can take a trip to the U.S., buy the truck for half the price, then ship it back overseas and still save atleast $20,000
 

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With that kind of money you can take a trip to the U.S., buy the truck for half the price, then ship it back overseas and still save atleast $20,000
I think 20k dollars is being a bit generous, but after airfare, lodging, food, time off work and whatnot...it's not unreasonable to imagine he might have saved a little money. But, i'm fairly certain import/export costs generally land around the 10k mark. And being from another country...i can't imagine that he'd have much luck shopping around for one...especially if he was going to finance it, so he'd probably end up paying close to sticker price...if not more with that BS markup.

Regardless, i really don't care...i'll be getting mine for a considerably much better price!
 

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Ya gotta shop around

The Dealer I bought my '04 F150 from wanted 3% over Edmunds Invoice Price. The Dealer I used prior to that who charged me $200 to order my '92 would order but wanted MSRP only (claiming that dealers were charging and getting thousands more because the RAPTOR is a limited edition vehicle.) So I called Louisburg, KS Ford Dealership who advertises everywhere 'Just $50.00 over Dealer Invoice' and that's what I paid.
They had a loaded Black RAPTOR on the lot but would only talk MSRP for it.
 

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Well you are Oregon"Rich" so what's the problem ...:gy:

I would certainly check another dealer. Hop onto cars.com and do a search for Raptors within whatever distance you desire from your zipcode.
 

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so you think $39,500 plus tax is good for a car that has a 37,xxx invoice?
Well lets see, if every dealer sold every vehicle for invoice, or for that matter 500.00 over invoice, how many dealers do you think would still be in business? By the time the dealer pays the sales comission to his salesman, pays his employees for detailing it for delivery, filling it with gasoline, etc.,etc. $2500.00 is a marginal profit. Besides, guys are jumping at the sticker price. Our dealer just sold a completely loaded black raptor with everything but the graphics for $46k plus tax. The truck was on the lot 3 days. $39,500 sounds pretty good to me.......
 

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Here's what I can't understand about dealers wanting MSRP or over, if you are ordering any vehicle.

* You place and order through a computer which takes 30 minutes max and doesn't cost a dime.

* You wait and wait and wait

* Truck comes in and the dealer details the vehicle

* Commission (unlikely since most new car salesman are paid by the number of vehicles sold per month plus per volume of excellent satisfaction surveys) plus detailer wages (@ most $15/hr @ 4 hrs)

* Dealer maintains at most a few days of dealer insurance until the deal finalizes (which I am they use blanket insurance anyway)

* Tank of gas at $70 max (for now)

* You are charged some sort of documentation fee (which is more profit for the dealer)

* Of course there are operation expenses the dealer must cover, plus they certainly want to make an operational profit

* Let's not forget the hold-back the dealer receives from the manufacturer which is in the neighborhood of 2-3% of the MSRP...more profit

* Vehicle invoice is not DEALER COST either

* I am sure I missed a couple of items...maybe not

Raptors are not that rare but I guess it depends on the dealers definition of "rare." I live in NC and have 11 Raptors within a 3.5 hour drive. There must be close to 200 Raptors available within the US (guess-timation) and nothing close to the high volume F150 SC's. Plus you can continue keep ordering them until your heart is content, if you can wait.
 

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An ex-insider's perspective... long, winded and as always... "opinions are like...."

FSMO6, I think your view, though valid (since it's yours and we live in America), is a bit naive considering today's environment. (that sounds WAY smart-ass - I'm not trying to be one and am just providing another opinion for this discussion) I worked for a dealer family's high-end new-car lot for 6 years in every department but detail/janitorial. I spent most of my time in warranty/parts/service and then as the director of the "back-end", but was a sales guy, and an F&I guy (dreadful!) as well.

ANY succesful dealer can go 60% of the year without selling a single new car and still break even. (absorption rate is the percentage of a dealership’s total operating costs that are covered by (“absorbed”) the dealership’s service department.) Some don't even need to sell a single new car and can remain in the black. (thus having a 100% absorbtion rate)

To answer your question "how many dealers would still be in business?" the answer is "most"

There are multiple dealers around the county that will sell for invoice, $50-100 over invoice, etc. They can do this because they have minimized their un-necessary overhead and have maximized the profitability of every other department within the dealership.

Though as a consumer we see a single entity when looking at a dealer as a company, a dealer is actually composed of multiple, competing, departments that are symbiotic in their relationship with each other. i.e., a new car sale that needs a light-bar put on a raptor for a customer: the new car dept. has to "buy" the bar (is charged for it) at reduced rate, but not actual cost. The parts dept. just made money on that bar to the sales dept. Service then charges a reduced rate (but not actual cost) to install it for the sales dpt. The sales dpt. then charges the customer whatever they want, hopefully making a profit as well.

The detail cost is at most 50 bucks (assuming a 3 hour detail as a worst case scenario... those staff just don't make that much)

On an ordered car - especially an i-net sale - the salesman is paid a flat to deliver the unit upon arrival, maybe $250 bucks... fair since they did nothing in that example to "get the sale."

Most manufacturers provide a no-interest floorplan for at least 30 days... so if the car came in and was delivered in that window - no interest was charged.

Most dealers don't have a per-car insurance plan but an overal comprehensive plan based on an average amount of vehicles on their lot at any given time.

Gas is gas and will be charged to the deal of the car by whichever dpt had to use the labor to go fill it.

People that MUST have it, that have money (and a good stream of it), are jumping at the car right now. ANY new vehicle (other than extremely limited cars like a Ford GT, Alfa 8c, etc.) can be had for near invoice... or below after rebates and incentives. Patience and research are necessary. The guys that don't use the internet (none of the board members here... but I wonder with some of the posts!) or that only check the local two dealers and learned "it's SUPER limited, for a limited time only and if you want this one, it's going to cost you $xxx ABOVE msrp" are likely to get duped into getting one.

AGAIN - not all people buying at MSRP or more are Dupes... maybe they just HAD to have one no matter what - kudos to them! God bless and party on! I wish (I'm jealous!) that I had that type of disposable cash to burn for whatever I wanted when I wanted it.... although i'd need a 10 car garage I guess...

These are just my thoughts from an ex-insider's perspective. "ex" because once you're at the top of the family dealer... you realize ONLY family occupy the next step. So I can afford the toys I want (someday), I'm self-employed and loving (mostly!) it.

defiant


ps - As a final note - even if you paid invoice (as described by edmunds)... the dealer still made $1274.10 plus any F&I money they get from you if you finance through them. (oh yeah - don't finance through them unless it's a subsidized rate!)



Well lets see, if every dealer sold every vehicle for invoice, or for that matter 500.00 over invoice, how many dealers do you think would still be in business? By the time the dealer pays the sales comission to his salesman, pays his employees for detailing it for delivery, filling it with gasoline, etc.,etc. $2500.00 is a marginal profit. Besides, guys are jumping at the sticker price. Our dealer just sold a completely loaded black raptor with everything but the graphics for $46k plus tax. The truck was on the lot 3 days. $39,500 sounds pretty good to me.......
 

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FSMO6, I think your view, though valid (since it's yours and we live in America), is a bit naive considering today's environment. (that sounds WAY smart-ass - I'm not trying to be one and am just providing another opinion for this discussion) I worked for a dealer family's high-end new-car lot for 6 years in every department but detail/janitorial. I spent most of my time in warranty/parts/service and then as the director of the "back-end", but was a sales guy, and an F&I guy (dreadful!) as well.

ANY succesful dealer can go 60% of the year without selling a single new car and still break even. (absorption rate is the percentage of a dealership’s total operating costs that are covered by (“absorbed”) the dealership’s service department.) Some don't even need to sell a single new car and can remain in the black. (thus having a 100% absorbtion rate)

To answer your question "how many dealers would still be in business?" the answer is "most"

There are multiple dealers around the county that will sell for invoice, $50-100 over invoice, etc. They can do this because they have minimized their un-necessary overhead and have maximized the profitability of every other department within the dealership.

Though as a consumer we see a single entity when looking at a dealer as a company, a dealer is actually composed of multiple, competing, departements that are symbiotic in their relationship with each other. i.e., a new car sale that needs a light-bar put on a raptor for a customer: the new car dept. has to "buy" the bar (is charged for it) at reduced rate, but not actual cost. The parts dept. just made money on that bar to the sales dept. Service then charges a reduced rate (but not actual cost) to install it for the sales dpt. The sales dpt. then charges the customer whatever they want, hopefully making a profit as well.

The detail cost is at most 50 bucks (assuming a 3 hour detail as a worst case scenario... those staff just don't make that much)

On an ordered car - especially an i-net sale - the salesman is paid a flat to deliver the unit upon arrival, maybe $250 bucks... fair since they did nothing in that example to "get the sale."

Most manufacturers provide a no-interest floorplan for at least 30 days... so if the car came in and was delivered in that window - no interest was charged.

Most dealers don't have a per-car insurance plan but an overal comprehensive plan based on an average amount of vehicles on their lot at any given time.

Gas is gas and will be charged to the deal of the car by whichever dpt had to use the labor to go fill it.

People that MUST have it, that have money (and a good stream of it), are jumping at the car right now. ANY new vehicle (other than extremely limited cars like a Ford GT, Alfa 8c, etc.) can be had for near invoice... or below after rebates and incentives. Patience and research are necessary. The guys that don't use the internet (none of the board members here... but I wonder with some of the posts!) or that only check the local two dealers and learned "it's SUPER limited, for a limited time only and if you want this one, it's going to cost you $xxx ABOVE msrp" are likely to get duped into getting one.

AGAIN - not all people buying at MSRP or more are Dupes... maybe they just HAD to have one no matter what - kudos to them! God bless and party on! I wish (I'm jealous!) that I had that type of disposable cash to burn for whatever I wanted when I wanted it.... although i'd need a 10 car garage I guess...

These are just my thoughts from an ex-insider's perspective. "ex" because once you're at the top of the family dealer... you realize ONLY family occupy the next step. So I can afford the toys I want (someday), I'm self-employed and loving (mostly!) it.

defiant


ps - As a final note - even if you paid invoice (as described by edmunds)... the dealer still made $1274.10 plus any F&I money they get from you if you finance through them. (oh yeah - don't finance through them unless it's a subsidized rate!)
touche'.......... points well taken from what sounds like a very educated explanation. I just feel like America is about free enterprise and we all like to make money at what we do. Dealers always seem to get bashed for "trying" to make a profit. (anything above a little) I know when I try to sell a vehicle, I always try to get as much as I possibly can out of it, leaving room for negotiation. Guess I'm just a child eating salesman too, huh?
 
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