[FSM06]

Ford is not always looking to void warranties.
They spent millions of dollars on R+D on their vehicles. Why should they warranty something that is modified?

I see it all the time, people put lifts and big tires on their trucks, then they expect for to pay for ball joints and front end alignments.

Remember the old saying."You wanna play, you gotta pay".

Ford is definetly not always looking to void warranties. I perform warranty repairs on vehicles regularly, that in my opinion should not be warrantied. Granted, there are facilities that would like you to believe that any modifications you make to a vehicle will void the warranty. Fact is, that unless the failure of the component can be directly atributed to the modification and proven without question to be the cause, the manufacturer cannot deny warrantable repairs. Like gasgasman says, FoMoCo spends millions of dollars in R&D to determine the limits of reliability for the customer. Certain mods defintely cause premature failures. Try milling the cylinder heads on a snowmobile or dirtbike and if the engine fails, see if you can get that warranted.

 

[FSM06]

ok i am not trying to start a pissing match , i do understand your blatant example , and let me start by saying i have 5 fords right now and my grandfather retired from ford . but as a previous 6.0 powerstroke owner i am a little edgey when it comes to ford honoring a warranty . when the third time my injectors went out i was slighlty pissy over the phone with the service writer , i will admitt , but the first words out his mouth were ,"you modified the truck " . now keep in mind here the dealer did all the upgrades and they were all appearance and suspension ( lift , tires , shocks , wheels , colored door handles , etc ) now how chicken s**t is that . so i think alittle attitude about ford and waarnty issues is appropriate consider how they handled the problems that most 6.0 owners had .

now i am not calling you out , just trying to make you see the customers side . and as a note that truck was in the shop 7 times over related issues , high pressure oil pump , injectors , the "y" etc. so the as far as i am concerned ford earned some of the mistrust people have . i just hope they earn some of it back by doing the right thing when the time arrises . respectfully ,tim .

tim, I can certainly understand your discontent. The 6.0 is a sore spot for us all. Customers and FoMoCo employees as well. I can't believe that your dealer installed the so called "mods" ( seemingly from this post that none have anything to do with the engine) and then "blame" you. chicken s**t doesn't even begin to describe that. Well, I could discuss this with you in great depth but it seems we are getting away from the thread. Just wanted you to know that as a FoMoCo employee, I understand some of your concern(s).
Oh and just FYI......In the few contacts that I have had with gasgasman, I can tell you that it seems we both work for dealers that are a little more concerned about our customer base and satisfaction than a lot of the dealers I seem to be reading about on this forum. It's tough for us both to read some of these posts and to think that "dealers" are seemingly all in one category. Anyway.......just sayin'

 

[SOCOMech]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act[/URL]

The dealer needs to be able to prove that the problem in question is related to modifications made. If not, it is most deffinately warrantable.

 

[Quiet Lunatic]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act[/URL]

The dealer needs to be able to prove that the problem in question is related to modifications made. If not, it is most deffinately warrantable.

SOCO,

Good find was not even aware of this looks like rep points for you; sure there are a lot of consumers on here that were not read up on this.

 

[rhlraptor]

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act"][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act[/URL][/URL]

Great find. This law has been around since the 70's when dealer/manufactures were voiding warranties for major failures due to completely unrelated mods. (Reasonable people can agree that adding an aftermarket stereo should not void the warranty of the drivetrain.)

In some sense both sides of this argument are correct. If you mod your suspension, don't expect to be able to claim warranty coverage for anything directly effected by the mod: shocks, CV joints, a-arms, etc. Ford is required by law to still warranty all unrelated parts of the truck. My experience with other manufactures has been that common sense and a bit of compromise goes along way to getting a dealer to work on a modded vehicle. If you have some extreme mods, let the dealer know that he can take his time to work around them to debug and get to the failed warranty part for example rather than expecting the usual 1 day service. Or don't fight the small stuff, save your fights for the new transmission you will need down the road.

The aftermarket exists to allow one to tune a vehicle to their individual preferences. There is no such thing as a free lunch. Most mods trade off something. But for an individual user that tradeoff can result in a vehicle much better suited to their needs rather than the target consumer Ford designed to. To recover their engineering costs this target must be very broad, 1000s or 10000s of customers. The Ford Racing site is an example of Ford showing that for some very specific uses, Ford can engineer major suspension and engine mods that "improve" their vehicles.

In this case of leveling the truck, my instincts tell me that the guys looking at the rear suspension have the right idea. Ford needed to meet a minimum load target and towing capacity to address their target market. So the rear springs likely have "extra" capacity with respect to running with a near empty bed. I suspect the least intrusive fix, if the loss in load capacity won't bother you, is there.

My last "modded" toy: [URL]http://www.youtube.com/user/rhld90[/URL]

 

[MD]

I would've posted info on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act if I knew we'd be getting into that issue so soon.

It's an issue that every vehicle enthusiast Web site addresses at one time or another. And it's an issue that every aftermarket manufacturer has to address at one time or another to help educate their customers and make them feel comfortable buying their aftermarket parts.

Understanding the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975.

Nearly everyone has heard about someone who has taken a vehicle that has been modified with aftermarket parts to a dealer for warranty service, only to have the dealer refuse to cover the defective items. The dealer usually states that because of the aftermarket parts the warranty is void, without even attempting to determine whether the aftermarket part caused the problem.

This is illegal.

Vehicle manufacturers are not allowed to void the vehicle warranty just because aftermarket parts are on the vehicle. To better understand this problem it is best to know the differences between the two types of new car warranties and the two types of emission warranties.
When a vehicle is purchased new and the owner is protected against the faults that may occur by an expressed warranty - an offer by the manufacturer to assume the responsibility for problems with predetermined parts during a stated period of time. Beyond the expressed warranty, the vehicle manufacturer is often held responsible for further implied warranties. These state that a manufactured product should meet certain standards. However, in both cases, the mere presence of aftermarket parts doesn't void the warranty.

There's a lot more you can read here (the source of the above):[url]http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm[/URL]

 

[Raptorguy21]

I would've posted info on the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act if I knew we'd be getting into that issue so soon.

It's an issue that every vehicle enthusiast Web site addresses at one time or another. And it's an issue that every aftermarket manufacturer has to address at one time or another to help educate their customers and make them feel comfortable buying their aftermarket parts.




There's a lot more you can read here (the source of the above):[URL="http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm"][url]http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm[/URL][/URL]

What is also great about the Magnuson-Moss act is that if the dealership tries to strong arm those of you, who are worried about keeping your warranty, into buying or installing "dealership/factory" parts in order to keep your warranty........ all you have to say is fine then install them but your going to give them to me for free. A dealership can't "make" you buy their parts to keep the warranty.

Example:
Consumer: I want to install a cold intake on my truck

Dealership: You can't do that, it will void your warranty, you can only run Ford approved parts on your truck to keep your warranty, so you can only run a Motorcraft airfilter.

Consumer: Ok, then if you are going to make me run only a Motorcraft filter, then I get that filter for free for the lifetime of the warranty on the truck

A dealership can't have it both ways :Na_Na_Na_Na:

 

[screamineagle]

i do agree with you....no manufacturer should have to warranty a modified vehicle if there is a mechanical/electrical issue related to the area of modification....but don't they have to prove it??

fyi....i had my raptor in today to see if they can lift the front end by moving the perch position....i understand that this will create misalignment issues....the modification can be made....but this dealer cannot be sure if they can recreate the original position of the alignment after modification....does not seem logical....and they claim the field rep for Ford is not sure either being such a new product with so few out there....it is only being moved 1 inch....i have asked 2 other forum members about their experience modifying the perch position and.....no responses.....what are your thoughts on this controversy?

 

[Raptorguy21]

i do agree with you....no manufacturer should have to warranty a modified vehicle if there is a mechanical/electrical issue related to the area of modification....but don't they have to prove it??

fyi....i had my raptor in today to see if they can lift the front end by moving the perch position....i understand that this will create misalignment issues....the modification can be made....but this dealer cannot be sure if they can recreate the original position of the alignment after modification....does not seem logical....and they claim the field rep for Ford is not sure either being such a new product with so few out there....it is only being moved 1 inch....i have asked 2 other forum members about their experience modifying the perch position and.....no responses.....what are your thoughts on this controversy?

Well here is my stand point, moving the spring up on the perch really isn't enough to necessitate getting alignment. Most of us do city or a mix of city/high driving and with the constant turning and stop and go the camber/caster really won't be much of an issue as the wheel is constantly moving all over the place.

Now if someone is a absolute worry bee about how their tires are wearing then ok fine get the alignment. I myself am not worried about the alignment that much because I'm very good about rotating the tires and with the way I use my Raptor, they will need to be replaced from abuse of offroading/burnouts

Getting to voiding your warranty on moving up the spring I would fight that to the death. How can they void the warranty on something that come on the truck to begin with :4-dontknow:..... Thats like buy a 4x4, using the 4x4, and you break a CV or axle shaft and they void the warranty because you used 4x4.......they can't void the warranty on something that came on the truck from the factory

 

[DINOONE]

My point 100% if your worried about warranty then you need to leave your truck the way it comes off the dealer lot with the dealer stickers intact. If not just pay to play, from the instructions its seems very easy to remove the Truxx Kit if you have any "Front End" problems which I doubt you will have.

FOX/SVT Team left the perches there use them if you want if your dealer doesn't like it go to another dealer........

Well here is my stand point, moving the spring up on the perch really isn't enough to necessitate getting alignment. Most of us do city or a mix of city/high driving and with the constant turning and stop and go the camber/caster really won't be much of an issue as the wheel is constantly moving all over the place.

Now if someone is a absolute worry bee about how their tires are wearing then ok fine get the alignment. I myself am not worried about the alignment that much because I'm very good about rotating the tires and with the way I use my Raptor, they will need to be replaced from abuse of offroading/burnouts

Getting to voiding your warranty on moving up the spring I would fight that to the death. How can they void the warranty on something that come on the truck to begin with :4-dontknow:..... Thats like buy a 4x4, using the 4x4, and you break a CV or axle shaft and they void the warranty because you used 4x4.......they can't void the warranty on something that came on the truck from the factory

 

[MarkT]

i do agree with you....no manufacturer should have to warranty a modified vehicle if there is a mechanical/electrical issue related to the area of modification....but don't they have to prove it??

fyi....i had my raptor in today to see if they can lift the front end by moving the perch position....i understand that this will create misalignment issues....the modification can be made....but this dealer cannot be sure if they can recreate the original position of the alignment after modification....does not seem logical....and they claim the field rep for Ford is not sure either being such a new product with so few out there....it is only being moved 1 inch....i have asked 2 other forum members about their experience modifying the perch position and.....no responses.....what are your thoughts on this controversy?

On the Toyota FJ Cruiser, the caster and camber can't be brought into specs after a 1.5" to 2" lift without changing the upper control arms to adjustable units. But a lot of people with FJ's just get the alignment as close as possible and it seems to be fine for them.

It's impossible to say how much the alignment will be affected by a lift on the Raptor or if there is enough available caster/camber adjustment to get the alignment back to stock specs... someone is going to have to experiment.

Also, moving the spring perch 1" probably will raise the front end more than 1". My guess is 1" at the spring perch will raise the front end about 1.5" or so.

The best part is that moving the spring perch is easily reversible! Let us know how you make out!

Mark

 

[screamineagle]

thanks for your feedback.....but may i ask what you have noticed since installing the Truxx kit?


regards, paul

 

[Raptorguy21]

thanks for your feedback.....but may i ask what you have noticed since installing the Truxx kit?


regards, paul

You asking me or someone else?

 

[screamineagle]

yes, you the raptorguy21......what has changed outside of the "look" since the level kit has been installed.....does it require any cutting of studs....does it impede any part of the suspension at all?

 

[Raptorguy21]

yes, you the raptorguy21......what has changed outside of the "look" since the level kit has been installed.....does it require any cutting of studs....does it impede any part of the suspension at all?

Well the truck sits level now, the ride has not been affected at all, what I do like about it is that the truck doesn't seem to bottom out as easy. I took the truck down some of the same trails I took before the leveling kit and I never once hit the skid plate like I did before, but I don't like how the upper control arm hits the spring.

I'm in the process of changing that, the limiting straps I ordered were too short :i_rolleyes: and it apparently takes forever and day to get blue quadruple wrapped limiting straps.

The steering wheel was tilted slightly to the left but nothing a small adjustment in the tie rod ends couldn't fix

I did have to cut the studs to put the leveling kit on, you have to, but that was no biggie to me, but I'm sure it will be for other people. All I have to say is read the instructions carefully and make sure you know what your doing cuz it can be very easy to screw up

 

[screamineagle]

thats great thank you.....i know there is no perfect world either way.....but it does look much better leveled......BTW how do you like the sound of the magnaflows??

 

[screamineagle]

beware of this article....the adjustment will require removing the shox to do it properly....you are looking at 3 hours of labor including the realignment

 

[DINOONE]

Sounds like an awfull ong time to remove a coil and change that? Did the dealer tell you that?

beware of this article....the adjustment will require removing the shox to do it properly....you are looking at 3 hours of labor including the realignment

 

[Raptorguy21]

thats great thank you.....i know there is no perfect world either way.....but it does look much better leveled......BTW how do you like the sound of the magnaflows??

Yes it does look much, much better I hated the stink bug stance..........man I love the sound of my Magnaflow, I get comments on it all the time

beware of this article....the adjustment will require removing the shox to do it properly....you are looking at 3 hours of labor including the realignment

I thought you could move the perch without removing the shocks or anything else, I thought all you had to do was remove the wheel, get the truck on jack stands and get a spring compressor, remove the snap ring or c clip and move it up :4-dontknow:

 

[xmjcx702x]

No NEED For Leveling Kit!!!

I'm looking for a leveling kit for the Raptor. Does anyone have any news on the availability of one.

The stock Fox's come with three height settings.

All you have to do is pull off a couple bolts and move the shock one click up and it raises your truck 1.75" or level with the rear...

I got mine done last week where we just moved the shock one click up and it looks great!

No need to spend money for a leveling kit that reduces travel, thats the last thing you want to do.

Hope this helps!!